Upgrading 2 zone pass to all-zone for the day is cumbersome for MAX riders

The solution is to buy 3-4 all zone tickets or an all-zone ticket book at tri-met offices.

Gee Indy, you sound like the TRIMET management!

That’s not the solution, because THE WHOLE ZONE/TRANSFER/PASS/TICKET is nothing but a nightmare and needs to be fixed.

Only the riders that have a complete understanding of how trimet works can plan ahead like that.

If you purchase a 1/2 zone pass why in the world should you be required to ALSO purchase a bunch of all zone tickets, THAT’S JUST PLAIN STUPID!

You have to pay $75 for a two zone pass, why should anybody have to fork over MORE MONEY to buy additional tickets!

NO FREAKING WAY!

I’d be happy if the machines gave out one zone passes. I rarely every need more then that - traveling on the west side mostly.

Heck, how about a one zone monthly pass and I’ll buy a three zone pass for the two days a month I need more then that?

Funny - I emailed a question about this to TriMet the other day. The “Customer Satisfaction” representative emailed back suggetsing I buy an “H” pass for 95 cents.

This is even less reasonable than any of the other things I’ve heard lately.

Can hardly wait until someone riding in Zone 3 with just a Zone 1-2 pass gets ticketed and takes it to court.

I think I heard a long time ago that the 30 cent upgrade tickets sold by ticket vending machines were too often used as a full fare transfer ticket on the buses. Bus drivers cannot possibly check all the small print on the tickets people show them; yet when the fare machines are emptied and the money tallied every night, they can see what kinds of tickets are put into the machines.

As you have probably noticed, the transfer tickets from the ticket vending machines are no longer being put into the bus fare boxes.

Theoretically this solves the problem of people using a 30 cent ticket to get a proper fare from bus drivers.

It also creates the problem your reader Jerry writes about. Hopefully this will be solved sometime soon. I fully understand and empathize with his situation. If enough people complained about it, TriMet would take notice…

I had the same issue Jerry had; I make once or twice a month trips to Hillsboro, but otherwise all my traveling is in zones 1 and 2. I used to simply buy the .30 cent upgrade at the Max stop. When they removed it as an option I contacted trimet and was told it was removed because it was seldom used and they wanted to simplify the ticket machine menu. I too was told I should get the upgrade from a bus driver.

Jerry explains the absurdity of this. But downtown at least, boarding a bus just for the transfer is an option. But when I’m out in Hillsboro, at a stop served by one bus, weekdays only, that runs infrequently, what am I supposed to do?

One simple solution would be for trimet to sell upgrade tickets, with a big U on them or something. No bus driver will be confused, and I could keep a few in my wallet and on the rare occasion I take max to zone 3 I could validate it.

Dave, I think your suggestion about a big U on a transfer ticket is a great idea. I am not sure why TriMet is allowing this situation to go on. We know that there are many people who have for example a 1 and 2 zone pass who occasionally travel to zone 3.

So I agree with your posting. It is an absurd situation, and quite frankly, I do not believe TriMet’s explanation about “not enough people using it”. That does not mean that the much needed upgrade ticket should not be offered for those who need it. As a bus driver, I had people upgrading all the time. I assume it is just as frequently needed for my Max passengers.

Call TriMet, write them, express your frustration.

Agreed - the upgrade should be available on ticket machines. Also, if they would only offer a real 1-zone ticket option (not a book of tickets that barely costs less than 2-zone tickets), that would make me very happy. I don’t like paying $2 to go 2 miles or less.

OP: “That being said, essentially the only way you can upgrade is visiting a TriMet ticket office…”

Most cities have a number of transit offices throughout the region. Even C-Tran has more ticket offices than TriMet (OK, by one, they have three) and they are spread out - Fisher’s Landing, Vancouver Mall, and 7th Street (downtown).

TriMet’s ticket offices? They have ONE - at Pioneer Courthouse Square. I want to say there is also an office at Center Street but their webpage currently does not list Center Street as having a ticket office.

I agree with Al M., if you’ve already dished out $75 for a two zone monthly pass, it is not unreasonable to make an upgrade EASY to obtain without first having to go to a TriMet ticket office OR having to purchase additional full fares - you’ve already paid for two of the zones with the monthly pass.

IMO, this is just representative of a bigger problem with TriMet and that is its lack of personal customer service. TriMet ought to have customer service offices throughout the region - all major transit centers, malls, the Convention Center, all major college campuses… Transit is supposed to be easy to use. TriMet’s sole customer service office is located literally in a basement, when it ought to have one of the corner spaces at Pioneer Place with full visibility to at least one direction of MAX and one direction of the Transit Mall.

meh, a lot of whining for a service that works as reliable as tri-met, I consider myself lucky to live in such a town. I’m not tri-met management, I do have other complaints about tri-met, I just think there are a lot more priorities to cover, like making tri-met more accessible to cut out other forms of traffic, to expand the MAX/light rail lines along barbur or the I-5 corridor, etc. These are crazy economic times, and I can’t believe we still have an administration that isn’t putting mass transit as a top transportation priority. Well, I can, but I can’t believe the people of this country still think we’re going to be driving these cars for the majority of our transportation needs in the far future.

Indy, if TriMet is “reliable” as you state it is, then what is the need for more light rail service?

Are you stating that “TriMet” is reliable, or “MAX” is reliable? And for those who aren’t familiar with TriMet service, what do you propose to make TriMet desirable for non-transit riders, considering that there is no economic way to simply build MAX everywhere in the next year (or ten, or twenty, or even thirty years)?

Make transit accessible and easy. If someone has a hard time using a 1-2 zone pass to travel to zone 3 that IS a problem. It might not be for you because you don’t have that problem, but it is for someone else. Someone who doesn’t have access to MAX deserves just as much quality transit than someone who does. Someone who doesn’t have a credit card or debit card shouldn’t be denied a ride on transit (which will be the case with all new TVMs, and every TVM on WES.)

[…] 1) Valid and Correct Fare Is Required.  Well, we’ve certainly covered enough personal stories about individuals having hard times obtaining proper fare… […]

“Indy, if TriMet is “reliable” as you state it is, then what is the need for more light rail service?”

Doesn’t seem hard to determine that outlying areas of the Portland area have demand for service.

“Are you stating that “TriMet” is reliable, or “MAX” is reliable? ”
Both. From my perspective I can list on one hand the number of times a bus or max has been beyond 5 minute wait over the past 5 years. The exception are events like the Marathon and other city events, weather (I’ll be the first to admit Tri-Met breaks apart at the seams with snow/ice.)

“no economic way to simply build MAX everywhere in the next year (or ten, or twenty, or even thirty years)?”

Sure there is. The alternative is to use services like automobiles that use engines that waste fossil fuels. Gas will be $5/$6/$7/gallon, (especially with inflation and as the U.S. moves toward a 2nd and third world country) or we simply won’t be able to afford driving in cars for too much longer. We should build the infrastructure now so we are ready for it.

Indy: “From my perspective I can list on one hand the number of times a bus or max has been beyond 5 minute wait over the past 5 years”

Wow, what route do you ride? 50s?

When I rode the 50s it probably had a 100% on-time ranking. Of course it helped that the route started - and ended - at Merlo Garage, and had 15 minutes of layover time between trips.

I ride the 12. It starts at Gresham. It ends at King City. Or it starts at Parkrose/Sumner and ends in Sherwood. Before it was a 12, it was probably a 4 which went from Gresham to North Portland and back, or a 9 that went from Gresham to North Portland and back, or a 20 that went from Gresham to Beaverton and back.

Needless to say, by the time I get on that bus, it’s had ample opportunity to lose time. And more often than not it does. For awhile I was actually making a point to check out the BDS display to see how late it was. For awhile, TriMet’s dispatchers were shortlining busses at Barbur TC, forcing all the passengers off the bus, and sending the bus - EMPTY - to Sherwood, leaving a bus load a passengers on their own.

One week, I had exactly one bus that was within eight minutes of on-time. (TriMet’s criteria is three minutes, so I’m pretty generous here. Under TriMet’s criteria, 0% of busses met schedule.)

“Sure there is.”

No, there’s a difference between your logic (let’s just not drive cars) and the ability to afford MAX.

Your logic would require everyone who gives up their car/gasoline to then spend that same money in taxes to build MAX lines.

Remember, also, that MAX lines are funded through the gas tax. That’s right. The federal match is paid for by the 20% or so of the gas tax that is redirected to the mass transit account. So as fuel consumption goes down, so does the federal funding mechanism for MAX.

So, the only way we could afford MAX simply by not driving is to create a tax increase that penalizes people not to drive.

Or, issue more debt - since “eliminating war spending” doesn’t actually result in more tax revenue to spend but rather the decrease in debt issuance. We’re paying for our wars on credit cards. Now, we could pay for light rail on credit, but who is going to issue credit? Many local governments - and TriMet still has to have a local match - are delaying bond sales because of the lack of buyers.

So, we can’t raise the revenue through existing sources. We can’t get credit. Selling a tax increase is political suicide. If the U.S. moves towards a 2nd/3rd world country, that makes it even less necessary/capable to build more MAX lines. “We should build the infrastructure…” …using slave labor???? By nationalizing steel mills and scrapping anything made of metal possible, while skirting any/all environmental laws that get in the way of doing so, just for a train?

I ride the 12 from S. Burlingame to DT and back almost daily (I bike otherwise), it is almost always on time, with bus full, in the early a.m. An amazing feat given the 12 can have ~60 people in the morning…

I also ride the 44, 54, 56, 94 about half the percentage of rides, and again, no complaints. Trust me, if there were complaints, you’d hear it from me.

My biggest complaint about Tri-met are actually people that exit out the front, it wastes everyone’s time, there are huge signs on the ceiling that show them not to, and it grates me that we’d have a more efficient transit system if it were obeyed.

“So, the only way we could afford MAX simply by not driving is to create a tax increase that penalizes people not to drive.”

I don’t see a problem with this. People should be penalized for driving, it is extremely energy inefficient. The party is over folks. cheap oil is gone, it was stupid to think we would be able to go on forever in the single car transport to work model, minus the upper middle class to rich. (I’m upper middle class and I gladly gave up my car.)

The taxes charged are not going to be more than what it takes to purchase, maintain, fuel, operate, insure 2000 pound vehicles day-to-day.

Well, it took 3 weeks for them to answer, but this is an extract from an email I got from a Trimet “Fare Analyst:”

… “Upgrade tickets were eliminated at ticket machines on rail platforms in 2004 in order to simplify our fare system at the point of purchase. We found that many customers have difficulty using the ticket machines because there are too many different options to choose from. Previously there were 21 different types of tickets available for purchase at the machines. For this reason, we have removed a few of the ticket options that have low sales. We are continuing to monitor the effect of this change on our customers and regret that it is proving to be an inconvenience to you.” …

I appreciate he took the time to answer, but this is apologetic without being helpful. Strip the apology away and the reply is “Trimet doesn’t sell upgrade tickets for the MAX” - which we already know.

Not a word about how the rider should deal with it - leaving the 2-zone monthly pass holder with no chocie but to buy a full price ticket when the need arises.

I’ll say it again, even though it is not being discussed and most likely will never happen;

TRIMET NEEDS TO SCRAP THIS ZONE THING!

Its a farce and basically unenforceable from a bus drivers point of view.

100% agreed, Al..

Actually, go one step further. Eliminate transfers altogether. Drop (or change) the fare to $1.00 or 75 cents. You pay everytime you get on a bus.

No tickets to read. No fare disputes or driver assualts over fares. No “cut me more time” or the other driver gives me…”. No 75-odd different fare combinations. I’m told the feds wouldn’t allow that. So change it.

End of story.

PDX!

BINGOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[don’t hold yer breath!]

I’ve always wondered why the bus drivers and fare inspectors don’t demand in unison that Tri-Met drop the zone system. It would make life ~so~ much easier for them as well as for riders (especially those who are new to the area). Tri-Met covers about the same geographical area as the MTA in New York City, and that system uses a flat fare (with a few very marginal exceptions), so I see no reason why Tri-Met can’t do the same.

Not only do the zones make riding Tri-Met unnecessarily complicated, but they don’t even make sense for their intended purpose: you can ride for a dozen or more miles on the west side and never leave zone 3, but travel five miles east of the river and you’ve passed through all three zones. Where is the equity in that? Drop the zones, charge a flat two bucks, and I’ll wager you’ll see farebox revenue go up, not down.