Justin over at neverbeencool wrote a long blog post about breaking his streak of 49 days without coffee, Kashi goLEAN & the width of a TriMet max seat. Turns out the width is probably around the average for a plane’s seat… which ranges from 17 - 18 inches wide. He goes on:
“Or rather, on me. Because that’s really all there’s room for. If you’re the same size as me or wider, and you aren’t willing to spill out into the aisle, you will not fit without crushing me against the wall or sitting my lap. And either of those are likely to make me wanna shank a bitch.”
Gotta say, I lawled when I read that section 
5 comments ↓
Seems like the guy has a double standard. It’s OK when he exceeds the width of the seat but not OK for people sitting next to him.
Did I say at any point “Golly! I sure do love siting on some stranger and/or pinning them up against the bulkhead while forcing my larger frame into an area that simply can’t accommodate it, but screw those other folks that try to do the same!”? No.
See, that would be a double standard. You know, if I applied one set of rules to other people while following a completely different set myself?
What I said? Common sense and/or courtesy. The gist of that part of the post was:
“The seat is XX inches across. I am YY inches wide. If you aren’t XX - YY inches wide or less, you shouldn’t try to sit in the remaining space unless you’re willing to lean out into the aisle.”
Look, seating on the train is first-come, first-serve, right? If someone gets on the train at stop A and sets up shop in the window seat in a given row, that’s their choice and they’re pretty much entitled to a reasonable amount of space. The person getting on at stop C has to adjust his gameplan accordingly.
Given, there are a few responsibilities that go along with that seat:
1. They need to give it up if someone elderly, handicapped, pregnant, etc. comes along after them. Again, just common courtesy.
2. They need to make a reasonable effort to take up as little space as possible to allow room for another passenger next to them. That means putting their bags on the floor/their lap, pulling in their coat, folding their newspaper in half (or putting it away), etc.
BUT…
They should NOT have to contort their bodies into impossible positions in order to make more room. The person with the aisle seat has all that empty space next to them to spill out into. They shouldn’t force themselves onto/into the person already sitting in that row just because they feel like it.
Taking the aisle seat next to someone should be like getting a table dance: there’s no touching, and a bouncer should throw you off the train (and possibly beat you) if you belligerently break the rules.
And in case you’re wondering, here are my own personal rules for selecting a seat next to someone:
1. Look for the seat next to the smallest person.
2. If I can’t fit into the seat facing forward without touching the person already there, I lean into the aisle or, in extreme cases, turn 90 degrees and sit facing the aisle.
3. If number 2 is unreasonable given the spots available, I stand.
For those of you who like the center-facing seats, you should apply the urinal rule: always leave one empty spot between you and others. If you can’t do that, you should consider standing.
Justin, you are missing the point entirely. You are saying that you are entitled to more than the width of one seat purely by virtue of being there first. People who get on after you are not entitled to the same width purely by virtue of their geographical location.
Ridiculous. Although I try to avoid touching other people when I sit, I do not fault others for touching me. Sometimes on a crowded train it is unavoidable. And there are some days when I simply have to sit down because of a sore back.
The seats are there for sitting, Justin. Your philosophy seems to suggest that we should only be using half of them in order to maintain personal space. That is utterly ridiculous.
>You are saying that you are entitled to more than the width of one seat purely by virtue of being there first.
I said that I’m entitled to the amount of space I occupy. I happen to have broader shoulders than some people. If I get on the train before them, my shoulders and I are entitled to the seat we select.
And I haven’t yet read your alternative. Am I supposed to gnaw off my arm at the shoulder to make room for you?
> People who get on after you are not entitled to the same width purely by virtue of their geographical location.
1. Nobody is entitled to smash me against the wall.
2. Nobody is entitled to sit on my lap unless I’m wearing a Santa suit and/or waving a fist full o’ dollar bills.
3. The geographical location part absolutely plays into it. Whether we’re talking about someone’s choice of seat or the availability of the bike hooks, it’s simply how it has to work.
Every day, I’m on both sides of this situation. In the morning, I’m the first one on the train. In the afternoon, one of the last. I don’t expect the people already on the train to fold themselves in half Transformers-style to make room for me, and I refuse to do the same for them.
> Ridiculous.
Bite me.
> Sometimes on a crowded train it is unavoidable.
Physical contact is one thing, but even on the most crowded train, you can avoid smashing people into walls and/or sitting on them. You stand, or you sit somewhere with more room.
Or, if necessary, you ask people to give you their place. You do not assume that, because there’s a seat there, you have the right to molest your neighbor.
> I simply have to sit down because of a sore back.
So this is really what it comes down to, isn’t it? Your sore back trumps my desire to avoid physical contact with strangers, right?
Guess what? I agree. With one caveat…
If your goddamn back hurts so much, say something. “Pardon me, but my back hurts. Can I sit here?” Not very difficult. Don’t just plop down on top me and expect me to do a little jig of joy as a result. I’ll gladly stand, though, and relinquish the seat. All you have to do is speak up.
> The seats are there for sitting, Justin. Your philosophy seems to suggest that we should only be using half of them in order to maintain personal space.
Again, I never said they weren’t. I said *I* wasn’t for sitting.
>That is utterly ridiculous.
Still can utterly bite me.
“I said that I’m entitled to the amount of space I occupy. I happen to have broader shoulders than some people. If I get on the train before them, my shoulders and I are entitled to the seat we select.”
Yes, but what you are also saying is that you are entitled to the additional seat that you and your shoulders are spilling over into.
“And I haven’t yet read your alternative. Am I supposed to gnaw off my arm at the shoulder to make room for you?”
Don’t be ridiculous. Perhaps you can take your own advice and simply ask the person who is doing the smushing to sit elsewhere.
“1. Nobody is entitled to smash me against the wall.
2. Nobody is entitled to sit on my lap unless I’m wearing a Santa suit and/or waving a fist full o’ dollar bills.”
Nobody is saying otherwise. What I’m saying is that your claim to the full width that your body requires is hypocritical since you are criticizing others for wanting the same thing.
The fact is that TriMet has made these seats available for everyone with the only “rule” being the obvious: one person per seat. Also obvious is the fact (which you pointed out in your original article) that no normal-sized person can fit within the constraints of one of these seats. Any sane persons can conclude that we must simply do our best to be considerate of others as we and they attempt to use these seats as best they can. One of those considerations is that *there will be touching*.
“3. The geographical location part absolutely plays into it. Whether we’re talking about someone’s choice of seat or the availability of the bike hooks, it’s simply how it has to work.”
These are not really comparable. Once a bike hook is taken, it is not possible for anyone else to use that hook at the same time. In your case, you have chosen to sit in a seat but are denying others the right to sit in the seat beside it.
“Every day, I’m on both sides of this situation. In the morning, I’m the first one on the train. In the afternoon, one of the last. I don’t expect the people already on the train to fold themselves in half Transformers-style to make room for me, and I refuse to do the same for them.”
Nobody is asking you to do that and nobody has said you should. In fact, I think the most reasonable thing to do is to continue to sit as you have. If you bump elbows or heads or whatever, it’s on the other person, not you.
“Or, if necessary, you ask people to give you their place. You do not assume that, because there’s a seat there, you have the right to molest your neighbor.”
Again, I don’t recall you mentioning molestation in your original post. Usually when people resort to exaggeration it’s a sure sign they have acknowledged that their case is weak and needs boosting.
“Again, I never said they weren’t. I said *I* wasn’t for sitting.”
Actually, you didn’t. And your implication is that if there is not enough room for someone to take the seat next to you, that seat must remain open. You are essentially laying claim to both seats.
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