Ban smoking at all TriMet bus shelters, MAX stations and transit centers
Posted by Christian in TriMet on Mar 13th, 2009 | 34 commentsI have an idea for TriMet that will not only make more Portland public transportation riders happy but also might be another possible source of some extra income in the form of ticketing offenders:
Let’s ban smoking in and around all TriMet bus shelters, MAX stations and transit centers.
First – the culprits
I’ve seen both public transportation riders and TriMet employees smoking at bus shelters, MAX stations and transit centers. We’re talking about employees of the company that have “No Smoking” signs disregarding this sign. I’m a big fan of leading by example… and employees that are doing this are only encouraging this blatant disregard for a rule (photo from rynosoft’s Flickr).
Second – TriMet’s stance on smoking
On TriMet’s Respect the Ride page, they have a small section towards the end of the page about smoking. It says:
“Smoking is prohibited on buses and trains, and where posted at bus shelters, MAX stations and transit centers. If you smoke, be considerate of your fellow riders by moving away from the shelter or station.”
There isn’t a problem about smoking on buses or trains… but I’m a bit confused by the “… and where posted at…” language TriMet uses. What exactly does that mean? I’ve seen a “No Smoking” sign posted with someone smoking right in front of it (which might be more of an issue with the last bit of TriMet’s quoted section). But where does the no smoking area end? Does the no smoking sign mean within 20 feet, immediately in front or around the whole bus or MAX stop?
A secondary issue – dodging spit
I remember when I went to Washington State University… I had a couple of morning classes. And when walking to class, I would have to focus on the ground in front of me to try to not step into someone’s spit. This is the same kind of situation that I have to do when I approach a bus or MAX stop. I know it’s certainly not against any sort of rule or anything… but it’s just gross and disgusting. And while individuals do like to spit when not smoking, smoking seems to up the frequency of spit from people.
The Solution
TriMet needs to ban smoking in and around all bus shelters, MAX stations and transit centers. They need to enforce this whether its their own employees smoking or a public transportation rider. They need to ticket those who are doing it (TriMet employee or non-TriMet employee). They need to post signs that clearly state that no smoking is allowed anywhere where riders are waiting for their MAX train, bus, streetcar or WES train.
The Upside
If TriMet were to clarify their stance on smoking around TriMet areas through specific no smoking signs and ticket both TriMet employees and non-TriMet employees, the everyday rider would appreciate TriMet more. I think the notion of riding public transportation being “groddy” and “dirty” would probably be lifted from a lot of folks. Not only would the public seemingly have a better opinion of TriMet, but ticketing revenue would help TriMet’s budget at least in the short term. It probably wouldn’t be very significant, but after posting clearly-written signs as well as giving smokers a grace period to read and understand that they can’t smoke at TriMet areas anymore, I’m sure issued tickets would be a large volume until smokers understood that TriMet will no longer tolerate smoking on their platform and at their transit centers.
To Summarize
TriMet needs to take a harder stance on smoking at all bus shelters, MAX stations and transit centers. They need to update their rules to indicate that no smoking will be allowed at all TriMet areas. They need to have clearly-marked and specific signs letting individuals know that this is the case. They need to not only enforce this for the public but need to internally enforce this as well. Tickets issued to offending individuals can be another source of revenue for TriMet.
Please leave a comment below with your thoughts.
34 Responses to “ “Ban smoking at all TriMet bus shelters, MAX stations and transit centers”
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Absolutely agree. Why do I have to inhale second-hand smoke if I’m waiting for a bus? And during the upcoming rainy season, should I be forced to either breathe in smoke or get wet? Come on now.
While Tri-Met can ban smoking at Transit centers and Max platforms, they cannot ban smoking at most shelters because they are situated on public right-of-way and are off limits to your whiny “I DONT LIKE SMOKERS” rant and Trimet laws.
I was in Vancouver last week, and I believe they actually ban smoking within 25 or 40 feet of a shelter.
Ken -
While I don’t agree that my post is overly “whiny”, I will say that I pretty much weekly received mail from people who have had it with having to be next to people that smoke while waiting for public transportation.
It’s fine if you’re a smoker. But I don’t want to inhale your smoke.
Even after a smoker finishes or leaves, smoke is trapped by the roof of the shelter they were under. MAX shelters are the worst for harboring smoke, being bigger than bus shelters.
Another problem – windy days at MAX stops with concrete staircases sometimes create a windtunnel effect. Waiting for a train on those days is excruciating when someone is smoking because it’s impossible to get away from the smoke when it’s being blown straight into your face by 15MPH winds.
Trimet’s language IS confusing, it makes the smoking ban seem like it’s just a suggestion, or a nice idea they hope people will pay attention to. And I wish they’d get off their butts and enforce THEIR OWN BAN on smoking. When I’m trapped on the 60th Ave MAX platform with 5 smokers, with no way to get away from the smoke, enforcement is sorely needed.
Ken, the problem is that when you indulge your desire to smoke, you take away my right to not inhale your smoke. Of all the vices, this is the ONLY one that creates an immediate byproduct, one that’s more dangerous to bystanders than the user. When other people drink, I don’t get cirrhosis. When other people overeat, I don’t gain weight. When other people take pills or shoot up, I don’t overdose. But when YOU smoke, I’M the one more likely to get lung cancer from your secondhand smoke. At least you get a filter on YOUR end of the cigarette. Use some nicotine gum if you’re that desperate for nicotine while you’re waiting for transit.
I think there are more than enough rules and places one “can’t smoke”, the problem is, the rules need enforced. I also don’t think we need anymore “laws” on the books. That’s pushing it a bit.
I do however know, if you light up beside me and won’t move, I’ll take blowing smoke about the equal of someone urinating on my leg – needless to say I will react. I’m only asking for some respect, not a lot, just a little. Don’t blow that filth around me. Go stink yourself up somewhere else in private. It’s pathetic.
Adron. You better be careful around me. Someone who uses that kind of language around me, won’t be around me for long. As long as smoking outside is not illegal, I will smoke wherever I damn well want, whether it bothers you or not. I don’t like your drinking n driving, but you do it anyway.
Ken – that’s not sound logic. When someone smokes, an inhale always causes an exhale. When someone drinks, drinking an alcoholic beverage doesn’t always lead to driving drunk. I find driving while under the influence to be fairly selfish and not respecting the lives of others. The same can said of someone who decides to smoke in an area that’s clearly defined as a no smoking area and blowing smoke where others can inhale it.
Also – I don’t appreciate you threatening another reader. If you write another threatening comment, I’m afraid I’ll have to moderate it.
Call it what you want christian, but when Adron made his threat, I responded in kind. Please show me some results that say people who drink don’t drive and I will show you results that refute that. There are more people who drink and drive than there are smokers out there, but I certainly don’t see you raising a fuss about that. Is it because you drink n drive also.
Ken – this blog is about public transportation etiquette.
And no, I don’t drink and drive. I don’t know why you would say that.
I’ve about reached my breaking point with nonsmokers. We’ve been pushed out of buildings, pushed out of bars, and pushed away from doors. I’m about ready to PUSH BACK. You don’t like my smoke – then walk away.
I’m a non smoker. But I fully agree with you. People just move.
The problem I see with getting rid of it all together is that some of the smokers may start leaving butts in and around peoples property and not in the trash container provided at the large stops.
Kyle & Ken, with ALL respect to you..I agree with some of your points..You are being forced into smaller and smaller spaces and places to smoke. It IS getting harder and harder to find a place to smoke. But, why do you think that is? Seriously think about this for a minute.
I am a non-smoker and I am trying to stand in your shoes for a minute..can you honestly stand in mine? I’m not chasing you away or “beating you up” in this comment; no idle threats or half-baked bull (nor am I implying anyone else is either)-unfortunetly, I cannot fully realize what you may be going through because I don’t smoke and never have..I saw what it did to my parents (2 cartons a week each) and wanted no part of it. This was my choice. As it is YOUR choice to smoke. Your CHOICE to smoke, NOT mine.
My son did smoke for about 15 years, until his wife convinced him to quit when they had kids. After about a month of being smoke free, he started noticing how his clothes smelt like ashtrays and butts; and how repulsive it was to stand next to a smoker. He would actually start choking and gagging when a smoker would blow smoke in his direction. He asked on more than one occaision “Did I smell like that? Did I act like that?”
See, Kyle says to “walk away”. Would like to Kyle, but most times, that’s just not possible, because you’re (I am speaking about the general smoker and not Kyle in general..I don’t know Kyle) smoking in a place where everyone has to conregate to ride public transit. Or your standing near the door that I have to use as well. Or you are near the overhang that is obviously blowing smoke in my direction.
Ken gives the impression (if I am wrong I apologize) that the blog comments are “whiny”..and he feels that Adron threatened him.
But go back to the original question…if there is no problem with cigarettes and their smoke to anyone else but smokers, why are there more and more places banning smoking or limiting smoking areas? Cause the non-smokers are whining? Smokers are being picked on? Singled out?Really? C’mon guys, you can’t be serious. All the doctors and studies, and they are just out to get the smokers.
I haven’t told you my feelings on it yet. I could really care less if you choose to put a stick in your mouth, light it and slowly kill yourself. Again, your choice, although, unless you have ZERO living relatives, it’s not just oyur choice, is it? But no preaching here. Ya know, I might even get hit by a car tommarow and you will outlive me by 50 years. My dumb luck.
But as GM’s comment a few up from this one says, “when you indulge your desire to smoke, you take away my right to not inhale your smoke. Of all the vices, this is the ONLY one..etc, etc, etc.” If smokers in general were cleaner about the habit (not just chucking butts whereever, blowing smoke wherever without regard to the person next to them, and keeping it THEIR habit and not EVERYONE’S habit) I think folks would be ALOT more tolerant, and YOU would be ALOT less defensive. Next, someone is gonna tell me that the nicotine in the cigarette isn’t addicting and it’s NOT a drug. I didn’t say it wasn’t legal…
You want me to respect YOUR CHOICE to smoke. OK. YOU GOT IT. I PROMISE. AS SOON AS I CAN GET YOU TO START RESPECTING MY CHOICE TO BREATHE WITHOUT YOUR SMOKE. MUTUALLY AGREEABLE TO ME.
Just walk away Kyle?…I’d love too. WITHOUT having to smell like your ashtray.
Great comment, David!
Tri-Met has had the smoking “ban” in place for over a year now. It gets tiresome watching five or so people smoke at every stop where I get on or off the train. Tri-Met has done little if any to enforce it’s own smoking “ban” despite it’s frequent statements of a lack of income. I get sick and tired of having to dodge cigarette smoke just to board or get off the train.
Whats more important to you, a smoking ban or security on the trains. You sure dont mind forcing your wants on other people, but if they try to force their wants on you, I am quite sure you will be the first one to complain.
What’s your point Ken? Are you saying Tri-Met cannot enforce it’s smoking ban and provide security on trains? That would be absurd.
Do you feel you have a right to give other people lung cancer and the right to toss your cigarette butt wherever you please? If you want to smoke that’s your business but I shouldn’t be subjected to cigarette smoke from you or any other smoker at Tri-Met bus stops, Max platforms or shelters.
I’ve often wondered what is with all the spitting at Max stops. People (mostly young men) often spit 4 or 5 times before they board the train. Where in the world does the need to spit that many times come from? Is it part of that culture of wearing your pants around your knees? It’s very odd.
That’s exactly what I am saying. They cannot and will not enforce anything on the trains except for what they so choose to enforce. Also, as far as my smoking goes, I shouldnt have to listen to you complain about it all the time, but I do so put up with it. If you dont like it, you are free to drive or bike to work.
This really is the silliest argument I’ve ever read. I can buy into banning smoking from buildings that don’t have proper ventilation. Indoors smoke does hang, and the odor lingers. But come on, we’re talking about outdoors! I was just outside having a smoke and watched as my smoke was lifted into the wind and dissapated within 3 seconds of my exhaling it. For anyone to be affected by my smoke, they would have to be standing within three feet of me in the direction in which the smoke was blowing. Are you seriously going to argue that at outdoor bus stops you can’t stand 3 feet away from a smoker? And the whole doorway thing is just ridiculous. When I approach most buildings, it takes a matter of seconds for me to enter, not really enjoy time to inhale harmful amounts of second hand smoke. And honestly, I don’t know where you are encountering all these rude smokers at bus stops. I know that when I’m waiting for a train or bus, most smokers I see usually separate themselves from the crowd. Smokers I know do there best to be respectful to non smokers. We don’t blow smoke in other people’s faces and we don’t try to put ourselves in the middle of crowds of non smokers. It’s like the picture at the top of this post. Who is that smoker harming by being where he is? Where are the crowds of people that he is hurting by standing there? Show me a picture of a smoker blowing his smoke in the faces of other passengers, and maybe then I’ll believe you are doing my than whining.
Last sentence – “more than whining”
Ken, it’s a shame you choose to break the law by smoking on Tri-Met property. In doing so you not only harm the health of yourself but you also endanger the health of anyone else who gets stuck breathing in some of your cigarette smoke.
I’m driving along. There’s a sign that says no littering. I throw out a plastic cup because hey, it’s not like my litter is going to be in anyone’s way!
^^^ that’s the kind of logic you’re displaying, Kyle. A sign says “No Smoking” means “No Smoking.” I don’t care if you’re there all by yourself; you’re breaking a law.
I live in Japan, but Portland is my hometown.
I think if people want to do something, they are going to do it ban or not. You need to give incentive to not do it.
Most if not all train stations here in Japan forbid smoking in most areas. THERE ARE some designated areas where smokers can smoke. These areas usually have ashtrays and garbage cans for cigarettes and are pretty well ventilated so the smell doesn’t permeate. This seems to work quite well here.
As for the spit, perhaps a water fountain in the area might help?
So, are you gonna tell us that you have never broken the law before. Never went faster than the posted speed limit, or jaywalked across the street. Never broke the law once in your entire life. Maybe you could tell us what it’s like to be Perfect and Odor Free all at the same time Christian.
Ken – never said that. But I don’t consistently break a law day-in and day-out.
It says no smoking – please don’t smoke. And I really hope TriMet steps up to the plate and tickets people that do.
I think it’s a rule and not a law, I think that’s an important distinction. Lawbreakers are criminals. I’m a smoker, not a criminal. If you read the original post, according to Trimet’s own website, by moving away from the crowd I am in compliance with their policy.
“Smoking is prohibited on buses and trains, and where posted at bus shelters, MAX stations and transit centers. If you smoke, be considerate of your fellow riders by moving away from the shelter or station.”
I think the point is that there is room for all of us, as long as the majority of smokers try to be considerate of others. I think smokers have proven time and again that we are willing to accomodate nonsmokers. The problem seems to be though, that smokers are unwilling to accomodate us. When I move to the end of the platform to smoke, I’m being considerate, you should appreciate that instead of looking for a transit cop to write me a ticket.
Late to the debate- but how about this- Tri Met provides ashtrays outside of shelters, lets say, 10 feet away.
Smokers get to smoke, outdoors. And- enforce the no littering rule to the maximum extent possible- say a $500.00 to $1,000.00 fine for tossing a cig off a Max platform. Such a compromise would take care of a lot of the problem and could even help pay for the clean up of stations and platforms.
Ys, that would prob. work very well Dan, but Trimet will not provide the ashtrays nor will they enforce the littering rule. You people are just waisting your time if you think Trimet is going to do what you want. They will not even enforce the las they already have on the books.
I think what Ken and other smokers are feeling is the squeeze in our society that smoking is becoming less and less socially acceptable. Back in the era of black and white film where everyone and their dog was lighting up a ziggy every second, the act of smoking was accepted, in fact, it was the “In” thing to do. I’m quite sure that the non-smokers were just as irritated by all the smoke back then, but keeping the fuss to themselves or else they would have appeared to be “square,” much like it would have been to be a Bush supporter in Portland, Oregon during the 2004 election year). If you doubt what I’m saying, try this experiment: stand in a bus stop shelter and FART a big one while others are around. I’m sure even the smokers would have a contention with this, sure it smells bad, but farting is just not following social etiquette. Perhaps us non-smokers are blowing hot air out the wrong end to prove our point?
We smokers have accepted the fact that we cannot smoke indoors anymore. But, we are sick and tired of all the whiners out here who obviously have no life of their own that want to whine every chance they get about smokers.No matter where we go or what we do, your need to whine about it is sickening. There is not one group that has been ruled, regulated, taxed or whined at as much as smokers have been and we are sick of it and are not gonna take it anymore. If you whiners dont like the fack that I and a whole lot of others smoke, then move somewhere else and stop yer crybaby whining. Your going to start seeing a whole lot more very rude smokers around you because of your efforts. If you leave most smokers alone, you will prob. find they will keep their smoking distant from you.
If avoiding spit, and telling people that they can’t do something somewhere are your biggest concerns. You must lead a pretty cushy lifestyle. Have all the tuition paid for you? Why don’t you get mommy and daddy to buy you a car, then you can stop riding public transport altogether. Problem solved.
Let me guess, “Fakey”, who apparently is too scared to reveal his / her real identity: you’re a smoker. Yep, probably, huh?
I’m not telling people they can’t DO something somewhere. Smoking is actually prohibited in most MAX and bus shelters. It’s like telling people to not speed when they’re going over the speed limit.
Wake up on the wrong side of the bed, sir / madam?